[...]A Sister’s Pre-Marriage Point of View; In Response to Muslim Matters. | | Egyptian Gumbo[...]…

[...]A Sister’s Pre-Marriage Point of View; In Response to Muslim Matters. | | Egyptian Gumbo[...]…

Just wanted to tell you from my PoV, you’re totally right! Jazakum Allahu khayran for writing it out, I know many of us sisters probably wouldn’t have done it. (I know I wouldn’t be able to do it)

I can’t believe how popular that post is on MM…The way I see it, there’s only SO much you can talk about, sah?? Don’t you get bored of talking about it again and again?? Really it drives me nuts lol.

Maybe every culture thinks they’re the pickiest when it comes to marriage That Muslims living in close-knit communities, with masajids on about every other block, it’s easy to see how a good portion of that society would probably have a greater level of support in getting married off than those without. Maybe that makes those of us living in communities where a significant number of Muslim youths/young-professionals are unmarried think that maybe “those people” have it easy b/c they’re not that particular about who they end up with (a false assumption, no doubt – i need only point you to my cousins from “back home” i’ve never met a pickier lot!).

As for contributers of “pickiness”, based on an isolated case I’m gonna go out on a limb and say that media and education (anywhere in the world – be it india or the u.s.) seem to be a (not *THE*) major influence on shaping people’s views about love, marriage, and the soul-mate factor. That’s not to say the more educated = the pickier, or the more exposed to media = pickier. But just that being exposed to these two variables contribute to our pickiness in some fashion (to say nothing of upbringing itself, but that’s another topic )

I’m basing this on two different times i went to visit pakistan (disclaimer: I know this doesn’t really substantiate for concrete-data (most isolated cases don’t), but i think you would find it interesting yourself): the first, when there was little educational opportunities available to women and virtually no TV sets airing bollywood in every household. The second time: the exact opposite ad subhanAllahhhh the changes were dramatic – not just in imitating the latest fashions of bollywood actors/actresses, but general viewpoints regarding relationships and family/domestic life as well; in this setting it was no longer “i’ll marry whomever ami, abu, or the khandaan say i will” (predominant view during first trip) but “will i be happy with this person and does he compliment my personality, my level of passion for the deen, for education?”. This is not to say that men and women had gone from having little or no preferences to very specific qualities that they would like for their partner to have – but just that their preferences had taken a totally different route compared to their parents’ generation. You can tell it’s a huge change b/c of the friction it’s created between the older (parental) generation and this new “hyper-preferential-generation”.

Obviously that’s only one instance in the grand scheme of things, so it doesn’t suffice as much support, but it was an interesting observation that, for the first time, made me realize the impact of the media on much of our views/lifestyle.

Sorry for the lengthy comment… I know they’re not as fun to read as they are to write

Btw…Is it just Shirien, or do any of the sisters out there think that my comments are sassy?

I don’t intend or see any sassiness.

Btw..shirien…there are 3 definitions of sassy on dictionary.com. Which one are you suggesting?

“And yes, I have no problem saying I’m a hyphenated-American. What’s there to mock about that statement anyway?”

I never implied that you should have a problem calling yourself a hyphenated-American. Never mocked. I actually have issues with people who mock others. I used that term in my joke because I thought it was kind of cool.

“Go ask Sheikh Yasir Birjas who started his own project “iwannagetmarried.com” just to help all of those people who have marriage issues get married!”

Though I admit that Sheikh Yasir Birjas got experience, I would believe ANYONE if they bring the right kind of evidence and not simply give their opinion.

“Why do you think the lectures and posts about marriage get the most attention?”

Why do you think topics such as Jinns get a lot of attention (as claimed by some popular Islamic speakers)?

“Because there are so many issues, either because of our standards, our parents standards…”
That’s only one possibility.
“….and everything in between!”
Examples? I cant think of any!
“Subhanallah if you look at Sheikh Yaser’s blog “themarriagerevolution.com” just his post about “Are you ready for marriage?” got over 300+ comments alone.”

Do you think ALL the people posting those comments have REAL-LIFE pressing concerns?
Perhaps, it could also be that some of them simply LIKE talking about marriage just like they like talking about jinns and other spooky stuff. I suppose most of the people haven’t met a jinn in their life nor plan on meeting one but they simply like to talk about it because it’s INTERESTING and you get to let your imagination go WILD and let your mind do intellectual GYMNASTICS and puke the resultant nausea-tic tantrum somewhere!

One thing I often hear is Americans are very opinionated and like to talk a lot!
“And then someone would say that Western Society is not picky or more complicated then other societies in terms of marriage?”

Perhaps they’re right!

“Some sisters and I run a youth Halaqa at our masjid on Friday nights, and you know what they always want to get advice on is? Marriage.”

Given their age-group, that’s a good topic to get advice on. But if that’s the ONLY thing ALL of them ALWAYS ask about, then may-be the group is suffering from some sort of obsession or phobias and require professional attention.

“Education, in most other countries the extent to which education really makes or breaks a deal, is when we’re talking social classes.”

What’s the source of this statement?

“ In the West, we’ve complicated it much more. we based it on Masters, PHDs, M.D.s etc. Whether the girl is more educated then the guy, etc.”

I’m sure there are people elsewhere in the world who are acquiring such degrees and the complication is not simply limited to the western society. Since you have taken the Indian example earlier, let me assure you that India is full of educated people and it doesn’t always have to do with belonging to a certain social class. Why are Indian doctors imported over here? Why is the IT industry full of imported/immigrated Indians? I hear people saying that even some housemaids have college education over there these days.
And Indians are but ONE example!
Infact, I think that the argument is actually weakened by taking the Indians (living in India) as an example. It is only fair to ask the youth and their families living there what’s its like to go spouse-hunting. I have some personal estimates as I have been exposed to the Indian culture, and they are FAR from what you are suggesting.

“in fact, I’m not even necessarily saying that being picky about certain things is horrible.”

And I understand that you are not saying that.

“I’m just saying that we as a society ARE more picky than others.”

You can say whatever you want, and I can say whatever I want. In the end in order to establish the significance of a discussion issue, we need some hardcore evidence (A good example would be a research a cross-cultural study doing a meta-analysis of the level of pickiness across different cultures).

“If you need more substance, i’d be happy to turn to the MEDIA for you, as I see nothing wrong in arguments holding some actual weight”

In my earlier comment, when I said media I meant the TV. But yeah, I don’t have problem with you turning to the media as it is of different kinds. Just remember that you turn to the right one though, like books and research articles—getting the info from the original source is always better than getting it from the subsequent one.

Shirien, in the end, I don’t have problem with most of the stuff you have written in your original post. My only issue was the unsupported claim that pickiness in spouse selection as a trait of the western society. I just find it weird when some western Muslims (popular ‘scholars’ included), set western Muslims apart from the Muslims of the rest of the world based on un-grounded ‘differences’. I think that just instills a sense of psychological separation with Muslims living in other countries and promotes narcissism.

Not only do I think we are more picky as a culture in terms of our marriage choices, but we also have it more complicated.

Go ask Sheikh Yasir Birjas who started his own project “iwannagetmarried.com” just to help all of those people who have marriage issues get married!

Why do you think the lectures and posts about marriage get the most attention? Because there are so many issues, either because of our standards, our parents standards, and everything in between!

Subhanallah if you look at Sheikh Yaser’s blog “themarriagerevolution.com” just his post about “Are you ready for marriage?” got over 300+ comments alone.

And then someone would say that Western Society is not picky or more complicated then other societies in terms of marriage?

(and yes, I DID get that from the media.)

Some sisters and I run a youth Halaqa at our masjid on Friday nights, and you know what they always want to get advice on is? Marriage.

And yes, I have no problem saying I’m a hyphenated-American. What’s there to mock about that statement anyway?

you’re argument in saying that beauty isnt the only thing people are picky about really just escalates my argument.

Education, in most other countries the extent to which education really makes or breaks a deal, is when we’re talking social classes. In the West, we’ve complicated it much more. we based it on Masters, PHDs, M.D.s etc. Whether the girl is more educated then the guy, etc.

Religiosity, is perhaps the only thing that I would say is not looked down up if we’re picky about that.

in fact, I’m not even necessarily saying that being picky about certain things is horrible. I’m just saying that we as a society ARE more picky than others. Whether that’s good or bad isnt the issue.

If you need more substance, i’d be happy to turn to the MEDIA for you, as I see nothing wrong in arguments holding some actual weight.